Drips, Droops and other disasters

Leaking fork seals, stretched chain, and notched wheel bearings...

I took the V out for a three day cruise round the southern part of  Nova Scotia, ride report here, and over the 1800km ride and camp trip, experienced a few problems with the bike that now has 71,000 km on the odo.

I don't always follow the sheeple.

First off, I pulled in for a cup of coffee, sat down on the curb to finish it, and noticed that my right front fork seal was leaking.

Yep, it's leaking.

I still had another 1500 km to go at this point, so I wiped it off and kept on keeping on.

Day 2 it was looking a tad worse, flinging oil and nicely waterproofing some of my plastics...

Later on, I found that I was hearing some noise from the chain, but only when I was on throttle. If the clutch was in on the bike in neutral, the noise went away, so I figured I missed an opportunity to lube the chain, or been riding too much gravel again, so stopped and hit it with the spray.

 Love that Endurostar.com stand!


The noise went away completely, and I thought I had it all sorted, that is until I got it back into the garage and had a good look at the fork seal.

I'd had success in the past using the Seal Mate product to clean and recover my left front seal, so thought to try it on the right leg, now that it was leaking a wee pool down over the brake disc and onto the garage floor.

The first thing I noticed was that the dust cover was not fitting very firmly to the fork cylinder, and of course there was all sorts of grit and grime under it, and the seal mate hauled out more grit than I was expecting. I left the bike with a rag wrapped around the lower fork to see if it would stay dry overnight supporting just it's own weight now that the seal had been cleaned up, but it was not meant to be, and in only a couple of hours, the fork was damp again with a slow trickle from underneath the seal and down the leg into the rag. Great, now I need to order that fork spring compressor tool up from the states, $40 bucks for the tool, with another $40 shipping clapped on top. I think I'm going to take some measurements and try to make my own out of bolts and plumbing or gas fitting parts from Home Depot, as I've seen quite a few examples of DIY jobs on the Versys forums and on the internet.

Now, I might as well adjust the chain while I have the bike up on stands, right? I put my chain alignment tool on the sprocket, give a go on both sides, tighten things up and give the wheel a spin to check to see if it has stretched unevenly. Yep, it's fine over 3/4 of the chain, then 1/4 is actually tight with very little give! As I rotate the wheel, I'm hearing a rhythmic grinding noise (think 1Hz) at 0 degrees (think of me wiping a bit of oil onto the top of the hub and using it as a reference point). It turns out that whenever the wheel hits 0 degrees, the chain is tight, and I hear that grinding noise again. Bother! I think I'm overdue for a new set of wheel bearings in the rear end, and might as well do the front at the same time.

On the advice of a friend, Jiff, I ordered online at FortNine.ca the new fork seals and dust covers, wheel bearings for front and rear), chain and sprockets (I'm going to go with a 16T up front and the regular 46T in the rear) and a few other bits like a spare air filter and a pair of iridium plugs.

I'll also be searching for threads on wheel bearing How-To while I'm waiting for the parts to arrive.

What can I say? If you don't ride it, it will never break down on you. >:)

I read through the Versys forum and watched this series of videos for the forks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmUfQr3WWv8

Any advice or suggestions regarding the forks or bearings? ("Stop riding" is not the answer I'm looking for. :P )

Now that the bike is up on blocks awaiting parts, I should have more time to update my blog. I'd rather be riding. 

Update: 2018-07-14 

I finally had to service the forks and replace the dust and oil seals.

Leaking Fork Seals [SOLVED]

So you might have read the post where I describe how my fork leg is now marking it's territory as if it were a dog checking it's pee-mail around the neighborhood. If you did, then let's get on with this post shall we?

Seal Mate

The trick of shoving a bit of plastic up the works and reaming out the grit might have actually worked!  I went online and bought a couple of the "Seal Mate" products, and waited patiently for them to arrive in the mail posted up from the US... ...then I got a call from my Honda dealer in Summerside that a petcock I ordered in for my 2001 Honda XR400 was in, and while I was at the parts counter, I spied a rack of the Seal Mates, for $10 each. Almost twice what they cost online before shipping, so I bought one. I'd love to tell you that I brought it home and proceeded straight to work on the bike, but it would be truthful to say instead, that I made a kick-ass Chicken Curry for dinner that night for my PEI family. (recipe available upon request)

Let me describe how I went about this wonderful task:

1. I thought my triple tree lift was in storage... Nope, it was stuffed in the back of a shed. 
2. It turns out that the lift was designed for sportbikes, and not wanna-be adventure bikes, or as my friend Zac likes to call bikes like the Versys, Sport Utility Bikes. (You know, sort of like the SUV's that only ever go offroad onto the grass of the soccer pitch?) So I had to locate a couple pieces of 2x6 spruce to put under the lift for some added, er.... ...lift.
3. Remove the front axle (it had been so long since I had this axle off, that I forgot what size hex fit the front, was it 17mm or the 19mm? Either way I knew I was covered with my Motion Pro axle removing tool ---which didn't fit. ) with a 14mm 1/2 drive hex key... 
4. Remove the front tire (and find that the lovely Michelin Pilot Road 4 or PR4 front tire was scalloping but had plenty of meat on it after just over 10,000km) 
5. Remove both right and left brake calipers
6. Remove fender
7. Wedge said fender with brake calipers dangling off of it out of your way so you can now sort the fully exposed oil soused fork leg. 
8. Clean it up. I'm going to suggest first off using a rag and some elbow grease, and perhaps some brake cleaner as well if your leg looks like mine... 
9. Pry down the dust seal very gingerly so as not to scratch the surface and really bugger things up...
10. Clean that up as well..
11. RTFM
12. Produce the Seal Mate and follow the instructions they provide, and perhaps even watch their How-to video once or twice for virtual practice. 
13. Right, now I need to put it all back together again to compress the front end so the seals reset themselves. 10 good compressions of the front end. 
14. If I got this right, I should see smears of fresh fork oil coating the leg, then those smears getting pushed lower and lower by a newly seated fork seal.
15. Hallelujah! 
16. Open the envelope your brother-in-law hands you, to find out that the two Seal Mates you ordered online are now in your possession, making you the proud owner of one seal mate, and two superfluous backups. 
17. Realize that instead of being superfluous, the two surplus Seal Mates would make great stocking stuffers for the dirt bikers in my family... win:win:win  

And Hey Presto!!! It seems to have worked in bench testing mode! I walked away from it after compressing the front end about 15 times, and it was dry as a bone when I got back. We all know that bench testing is no substitute for the real thing...

Today I took the bike out for a fling for green peppers as tonight Chilli Con Carne was on the menu (recipe available upon request), and I took a road full of potholes and frost heaves there and back, around 20 km of fun riding... And again, the fork leg was as dry as a bone when I got back and packed it away into the garage. 

Tomorrow I've got to return some library books and collect some fork oil to top off what got pissed away, and I think the bike is overdue for a nice clean up. 

Anyhow, I'm packing for my first tour of the season, and I am so happy that I don't have to spend my trip budget on new fork seals and having someone else replace them for me, although fork seals are messy, messy adventures. *sigh*

I'd love to say that I'll order in a set of seals and the inverted fork spring compressing tool, but when I was doing all that work on the front brakes, I can see that this tour will end with a front brake pad re & re. 

It turns out that if you ride them, you have to repair them. Go figure. 

That fork oil collects even more dirt and grit, and paper towel just won't clean off the lowers.

These things work as advertised!!!

Everytime I wheelie, I think of all the grit that might end up jammed under the seal (It doesn't stop me though)

Yes, it is pulling out the dirt

And more dirt

Seal Mate sells them through Motion Pro

I can't remember what this was supposed to show, but the lighting is bad so I took a duplicate. Just be a good reader and ignore this one, please? There's a good lad/lass.

Thanks Rob! It's a great product that kept my bike on the road for another 20,000km!

Rob at Seal Mate enjoyed reading this so much, he offered any readers of this blog a 10% discount if you purchase the Seal Mate product from this link: https://sealmate.net/discount/11X2N5

Seal Mate works, and I wanted to pass that information along should you want to try it out for  yourself. 

The Versys fork seals are leaking

It never rains, it pours. Or so it seems here at home. I've made a hash of my XR400 Carburetor repair, yesterday I blew a brake line on my venerable old 2003 Honda Civic, and today while riding my bike, I blew a front left fork seal. :'(

You will be happy to know that I found a fix that cost me ten dollars and hours of labour. Seal Mate saves the day!

I wonder if this is all just dirt under the seals and if I can use the "seal mate" trick with a piece of old 35mm film or negative?

Motion Pro Seal Mate

If you are thinking about buying a Seal Mate, and you live in Canada, you may want to do so here:

http://sealmate.net/seal_mate_instructions.html

I've had some experience replacing fork seals on a Kawasaki KLR 650, but the Versys uses the inverted upside down fork configuration, and my research shows that the job is just as messy, and requires some specialized tools to service the fork that I simply don't have at the moment. So lining up for this job, I find I need the following bits based on servicing both front forks as opposed to only one:

• SEAL,DUST (Ref # 92093)           92093-0035      2 Each 
• SEAL-OIL (Ref # 92049)              92049-0058       2 Each

Fork Oil:

Specialized tools:

• Fork Spring Compressor tool
• Fork Bleed tool
• "Finger" plate

Fork Spring Compressor Kit for inverted forks

These are from Traxxion Dynamics and if you find cheap Chinese knock offs that look very similar, the word on the street is be very careful, as they tend to break more than they work as compared to this Made in USA model. 

I found a comprehensive video that shows service on similar forks to the Versys, but this is not exactly the same as out bike. Please let me know if you have a better source for this. 

Part 1

Part 2

eBay sourced tool that does not get good reviews. Buyer Beware:

The price is right, but is it worth it?

This is a real DIY approach.



That's all for now.

I did manage to get them sorted out using Seal Mate, and got another season out of them! https://www.ridereports.ca/2016/05/leaking-fork-seals-solved.html

Update 2018-07-14:

The leaking fork seals have been replaced at long last.

The Secret World Of Fork Oil

THE SECRET WORLD OF FORK OIL

Go grab a basketball. Bounce it on the ground. See how quick it bounces back? That's rebound. Next, fill half of the basketball with water. Bounce it on the ground. See how sluggishly it returns? That's compression. The ball is a sphere to contain and restrict its contents. Depending on what you put in it, it will bounce high, bounce low or not bounce at all. Helium, air, water or lead will change the characteristics of a basketball.

Fork oil does the same thing to your bike's forks. Instead of helium, air, water or lead, forks use different viscosities of oil. MXA's (motocrossactionmag.com) guide to fork oil will help you understand what that means to you, your bike and any hoped-for win streaks.

QUESTION ONE: IS FORK OIL AN OIL OR A FLUID?

Within the industry it's common to use both oil and fluid in the same sentence. That's because all oils are fluids. You will find that many of the best fork oils are labeled as a "cartridge fluid," but to our way of thinking that is more of a marketing move than actual fact. If you want to really amaze friends, you can also call fork oil "hydraulic fluid" or "hydraulic oil."

QUESTION TWO: WHAT IS HYDRAULIC DAMPING?

Hydraulics is a branch of science that deals with the practical applications of fluid in motion. Your motorcycle uses fluids in motion to resist movement. By transferring a quantity of oil from one end of the fork to the other through a series of small orifices or valves, the movement of the fork can be controlled. The more restrictive the valving or more viscous (heavier) the fluid, the slower the fork will move.

So, while the fork spring holds the front end up, it's the hydraulics that keep the fork from excessive bottoming or rebounding.

QUESTION THREE: WHAT DOES VISCOSITY MEAN?

Viscosity is the resistance of fluid to flow. It is measured by flowing a specific quantity of the fluid through a capillary tube (called a viscometer). The rate of flow is expressed in square centimeters per second, or more customary, in centistokes (cSt). The Society of Automotive Engineering uses the cSt measurement and converts it to a weight value (30 weight, 40 weight, 50 weight and so on). Those weights can be found on a can of motor oil. The SAE scale follows a very broad viscosity calibration scale.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17492804&postcount=4

The image above appears to be an edited version of this file http://reddirtriders.com/storage/suspensionoils.pdf

Have a look here as well.

QUESTION FOUR: IS FORK OIL MEASURED BY THE SAE SCALE?

No. Fork oil weights are derived from the industrial standards used for hydraulic applications, called the Saybolt Seconds Universal (SSU). This measurement uses a similar viscometer arrangement as used to determine a cSt value, but grades the oil using a much more sensitive viscosity calibration scale.

QUESTION FIVE: HOW DOES THE SAYBOLT SCALE WORK?

The thickness of hydraulic and fork oils are listed as the Saybolt Seconds Universal at 100 degrees C/viscosity index. Let's say that the numbers listed on the bottle read as 85/150. It means that the oil's SSU value at 100 degrees C is 85. Then, the flow of the oil is measured at 40 degrees C. The second number-150-is the value given to the difference in flow between the two temperatures. This is called the viscosity index (VI).

QUESTION SIX: WHAT IS THE IMPORTANCE OF VISCOSITY INDEX?

It tells how stable the fork oil remains from 104 degrees Fahrenheit up to 212 degrees Fahrenheit (or the boiling point of water). This is important because the higher the VI rating, the more stable the weight of the oil remains when it gets hot.
How does this apply to bike forks ? The friction created by sliding metal parts and oil flowing back and forth through valves creates heat. The more consistent the weight of the oil remains the less likely the fork's damping is to change as a moto progresses. If the oil gets hotter and thinner, the forks will get softer and faster.

Luckily, the oil in your fork seldom sees temperatures as high as 150 degrees Fahrenheit. The logic applied here is that a good fork oil should have a VI rating of at least 150.

QUESTION SEVEN: WHY DOES MY FORK OIL HAVE A WEIGHT?

Consumers like to shop for oil by weight. So, the motorcycle industry took the SSU/VI measurement and converted it to weights based on the same scale used by the SAE. But since the SAE weight schedule is so widely incremented, two cans of fork oil with different SSU viscosities of 80 and 100 can both be listed as a 5 weight (5wt). Yes, it is confusing!

QUESTION EIGHT: IS KAYABA 01 REALLY A 7-WEIGHT OIL?

This is where not having a finely calibrated oil weight rating scale confuses matters even more. Some mechanics claim that Kayaba 01-labeled a 5wt-is thicker than Showa SS-7 (and other 5wt cartridge fork fluids). They call it a "thick" 5wt or claim that it is really a 7wt. But, if you call Kayaba they will tell you that Showa's SS-7 is thicker than 01 oil.

Unfortunately, you have no choice but to let them call it what they want. The rule here is to find a reputable 5wt cartridge fluid that works best for you. When you find a fork oil that delivers the performance you want, stick with that brand. Just to clear the record, Showa SS-7, Kayaba 01 and Pro Circuit PC-01 are all produced by the same company in Japan. Except for color, they are the same weight oil.

QUESTION NINE: WHAT OIL SHOULD MY FORK USE?

Every cartridge system production fork on the market comes standard with an oil rated as a 5wt. The factories use 5wt oil because it's thin enough to remain stable when heated past 100 degrees Fahrenheit and thick enough to lubricate the large surface areas sliding back and forth in a fork.
The starting point for every modern fork is 5wt oil. That is what your fork needs.

QUESTION TEN: HOW DO I FIND THE BEST OIL?

Pro Circuit's suspension guru, Bones Bacon, recommends that a new bike first be ridden with the stock fork oil. Why? Modern suspension parts used hard coated internals and are filled with quality suspension fluid. While contamination from the factory and the risk of premature wear aren't an issue, breaking the bike in with the stock fork oil gives you a good feel of how the forks work stock. From this base setting you can judge all future service or mods.

If you're happy with the standard performance, have the fork serviced with the manufacturer's recommended replacement fork oil. If you like the way the suspension hop-up shop modified or serviced your fork using their recommended oil, stick with their brand of oil.

QUESTION 11: WHAT ABOUT 2-1/2 WEIGHT FORK OIL?

Most suspension fluids that are lighter than 5wt are designed specifically to be used in a shock. Fork oils heavier than 5wt get too thin when they get hot. Stick with 5wt fork oil.

Another good read regarding Viscosity and why it was very important in older forks but not as relevant today:

http://www.dirt-bike-secrets.com/fork-oil.html

And a few more resources:

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/469514/Re:_Motor_Oil_for_fork_oil?#Post469514

http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/index.php?title=Suspension_Fluid ...this one is brilliant.

https://transmoto.com.au/comparative-oil-weights-table/

http://motocrossactionmag.com/features/mxa-guide-to-2015-forks

HOW TO DIAL IN YOUR SHOCK IN 20 EASY STEPS

There are only 20 steps, but you may have to do them several times; so let's just say "How To Dial In Your Shock In As Many Steps As It Takes"